Brock Yordy:
Good morning. Welcome to episode 137 of The Driller Newscast, your update on the news and stories and policy that are impacting the drilling and construction industry. I'm your host, Brock Yordy, and right now, if you're listening to this as it drops on December 11th, we're all about to walk into the show floor at Groundwater Week in Las Las Vegas. We're so excited.
Stop by The Driller booth. Say hello. That's Booth 25. Today at 2:30 (on Wednesday, December 11th), we'll be having a happy hour toasting the industry, talking about all the great accomplishments we had in 2024 and what we're looking forward to in 2025.
Dave Bowers and Robert Meyer, both contributing writers and great partners and friends of this industry, will be with me. We'll be doing some Newscast Live. Come stop by. We want to talk to you.
I want to jump right into our feature this week. It's with Margaret Martens of the Water System Council. We're going to talk about all the things they're up to and the importance of the fourth edition of The State of the Water Well Industry survey that is out right now. If you've caught 2024's edition, you can see that we had just under 700 contractors do the survey. We need to get up to a thousand, 1,500, 2,000 contractors out there along with our suppliers and everybody else. This survey gets passed out throughout states at the federal level in D.C. This gives a snapshot of what our industry is up to, how we're growing, our needs — all the pieces. And I need you to stop what you're doing and fill out this survey because the better we're represented, the better we have for opportunities for all the great things that are coming out, from D.C. to your state, on water legislation, policy growth, funding, preventing pipelines from forcing private water well owners to hook up.
There's so much to go and do it. I want to jump right into this discussion with Margaret. I hope you enjoy this week's feature as you're walking the show floor for Groundwater Week. I was very excited to be able to get Margaret Martens, who is insanely busy right now. There's so much going on in our industry — in water and in policy and in spending, some big things that have happened on the East Coast, especially North Carolina.
Let's start there. Go ahead.
How are you, Margaret?
Margaret Martens:
I am very good, Brock. Thank you for having me. Yes, here in North Carolina — I live just north of Charlotte — as you may know, Hurricane Helene wreaked havoc in western North Carolina. So the Water Systems Council and our nonprofit, the Water Well Trust, has been working with the North Carolina Groundwater Association and officials at the state level to try to help with some disaster relief. We have set up a special fund that we are able to provide funding. So, we did a couple of big projects I was just at. One was in Swannanoa, North Carolina a couple of weeks ago. We drilled a well for a church. Now, normally, the Water Well Trust works with individuals, but we have raised monies that we can do these special projects because what we're doing is, we are having to triage what's going on in western North Carolina as far as well drilling. The well contractors have been servicing the big projects first — the emergency shelters, the hospitals, the schools, things like that — in order for them to get up and running.
So, we actually drilled a well for a church that is an emergency shelter in that area. And I'll tell you, pulling into Swannanoa — this is the first time I'd been over there, Brock — the Swannanoa River runs right along I-40, and there is just debris everywhere, and you pull off and you look around you and all you see are tents and campers. It's where people are living, and the stories that I heard from the pastor at that church were just unbelievable. The devastation that they've seen, frankly, the death that they have seen, and the resources are not flowing like people need. So, again, Water Systems Council and Water Well Trust are both working. We are having people who are in need of help with their wells to contact the wellcare HOTLINE of the Water Systems Council and our staff is talking them through the potential of getting funding through either our regular Water Well Trust program or our new Western North Carolina disaster relief.
So, there's a lot of work to be done, and this is something that Water Systems Council has been doing for a long time as far as when there's a natural disaster, we do send information to those counties and those department emergency departments about what to do with your well in case it was flooded or there's a wildfire or something like that. But as we all know, there are more and more of these natural disasters. So we're seeing where Water Systems Council and the Water Well Trust will be working more in this area going forward.
Brock Yordy:
This is a very different disaster than what we've been dealing with for the last decade, though. As I've seen Water Systems Council in the western United States and the droughts or the policymaking that's happening with, say, Georgia versus Florida over the amount of water because we're seeing aquifers pump tartar, we're seeing aquifers that go between states and boundaries as we look at the Ogallala, but it's like a slow car crash of we see it coming and coming and coming, and we're able to start planning. We see wells slow down, we see wells stop. You hear community people talking about it. This hurricane, we had no idea that it would take the path it took or that it would devastate North Carolina the way it did. This was fast, and suddenly you have people in no water, you have wells destroyed. How do you react faster? Right? Everything's been built in a system of we're going to drill this new well deeper, we're going to find more water, this is the solution for a 30-year cycle. And now, suddenly, everybody needs multiple gallons a day in order to drink, clean, continue.
Margaret Martens:
Right. So, we did a fire station in Fairview, North Carolina, and I was talking to the chief and he was explaining to me that they were an emergency shelter and people were coming to them after the flooding, but they had lost their public water supply. So they needed a well in order to be able to provide emergency shelter. So, what these facilities are discovering is that in order to be prepared for a natural disaster, they need wells.
Brock Yordy:
It's tough. It's the end of year, and we have drilling companies that are prepping, and being in Michigan, or I was just in Boston working on some thermal network stuff, other states have moved on. There's so much that's happened at the end of our year, and there's so much on TV, from COP 28 happening and the climate stuff to our snowstorms and the atmospheric rivers. I don't think we realize right now, as this drops and we're all in Vegas at the show floor with the spectacle of Vegas, unless you're living there...
Margaret Martens:
Right. And we knew that was going to happen. When Hurricane Milton came along — what a week after Helene? — we knew the attention would then go elsewhere. And the other thing is, like you say, North Carolina was not prepared for this. In Florida, they understand they're going to have hurricanes, they understand they're going to have flooding, they have flood insurance. That did not happen. So most of these people who lost everything due to the flooding from the hurricane did not have the insurance to cover it. So it's a very devastating thing. That's why we're going to continue to work to try to bring attention to it. We have a video that we're filming that we will release probably in January or February that we really want to continue to call attention to what's going on right here.
Brock Yordy:
I think it's almost divine to know that Water Systems Council and you are in North Carolina for this to happen and to have the rapport and all the great members and individuals that are collaborating.
Margaret Martens:
Yeah, my own personal well contractor is actually president of the North Carolina Association, Matthew Brown, and so, certainly, it was good to have that relationship in place because when this happened, right afterwards, who called me was Matthew Brown and also Kevin Hancock who runs DSI, which is just in Hickory, about 40 minutes from me. So they knew we were here and wanted us to respond. So that's what we're trying to do.
Brock Yordy:
And so in response, as I'm so thankful to have you on today, we have the State of the Water Well Industry survey going out, and it's multiple years now and we should have this as our new normal. As you think of the terminology, “new normal,” we get this after we have a massive change in culture, society, something that is devastating. Our new normal is to be able to react and move on. And there's 14 million water wells, private water wells, in the United States. Roughly 40 million Americans have access to private water. We see right now in North Carolina what's just happened. The drilling industry, as we move back and we think about all of you throughout the country and world that pay attention to the Newscast, and we have these discussions, this survey is insanely important to the rest of the world, to the United States, to D.C., to your state, understanding private water wells. 90% of our population just turns a faucet on and pays a bill. It's very important. So, let's talk about your goals for the State of the Water Well Industry '25 that is about to come out — or not come out, we're in the middle. We need these surveys done so we can have the best data possible.
Margaret Martens:
And that's the point, Brock, is the more participation we get, the more accurate our data is. I go around to state associations and do presentations on the state of the industry report, and I was doing it in Florida at the end of May or beginning of June this year. And I was telling them the statistics that we break it out by region actually. And I was telling them that in the southeast there were an average of 140 wells drilled and 45 geothermal wells and a number of pumps installed. I told 'em the average income in that area was 2.5 million and the average number of employees was 16. I had some gentlemen say, that's not the way my company is. Those numbers are wrong. And I said, and it was great. Like, okay, that's why you need to take the survey. We need everybody and all our well contractors out there to be taking 10 or 15 minutes to complete this survey and they will receive a copy of the results.
And the data is data that you can't find anywhere else. It talks about industry outlook, it talks about the effects of regulations, it talks about workforce challenges, which we know there are plenty of talks about how the weather is impacting your business, how you're using technology, what people are investing in, and we have both contractors and suppliers answer this survey. But really most people on both sides, contractors and suppliers really want to hear what the contractors have to say. The manufacturers want to know what the contractors are saying about adapting new technology as they are working on new technology. Contractors want to hear, they want to benchmark, oh, if this is the average number of wells drilled in my area, I guess I'm doing really well or maybe I'm not doing as good. I need to bump up my marketing. Or again, just data that you just don't get anywhere else. And I know that when I give these reports, contractors love hearing this information and our suppliers do, and I'm even getting a bunch of investment companies that want information. Because water is a hot topic these days and there's a lot of investment companies now that are also wanting this data.
Brock Yordy:
How many of these reports are out now, how many have you done?
Margaret Martens:
This will be our fourth.
Brock Yordy:
Okay. So, if we look at these four — and by the way, these four seem like they came out in dog years because it seems like we've been doing this a lot longer — but let's think about this. Coming into 2024, the president had a strategic groundwater supply presidential panel that focused on what our water supply was, what our security was, how we handle aquifer storage and recharge, and all of those pieces. If we look before that, we have seen from Hollywood to many aspects that have said water is a critical resource to be investing in. Even the movie &.dquo;Too Big to Fail” at the end of it, Christian Bale's character — who is still very, his character, the real-life person, is a very influential investor throughout the world — what did he end the movie on? You should be investing in water and water infrastructure. And as we look at the western United States, who very much is saying, whoa, we go, okay, so you need to be doing it out West. But when we look at our strong groundwater states like Michigan, like Florida, like the Southeast and the Great Lakes states, this is what's important. And as I remember looking through the report, you were just under a thousand respondents.
Margaret Martens:
Yes, 634 contractors.
Brock Yordy:
Last year when we talked about this, and I did a Newscast on it, I said, industry, this isn't, we went fishing in the summer in Canada and we talk about how big of a walleye we got, and maybe that walleye was 10 inches or maybe it was two feet. If you employ 16 individuals and you're doing two and a half million dollars a year, that is very important. But it is just as important to know that if you employ six individuals and you're doing just under 2 million a year, those banks, those investments, those scaling up of all of our technology out there, they need to know they're reacting to you too. And how we come out to at price or how we loan money, since we're this big, when you look at the entire workforce or our population, we need to be widely represented, not just everybody is a multimillionaire with five pieces of equipment and a portfolio that shows I can borrow money at 17.5% and I'm okay. No, we need to show that there are government incentives out there that we can have low interest loans to grow our business.
Margaret Martens:
Right. And again, since this is a year over year, we can extrapolate some trends also with this data. So in the 2024 report, it says that the average contractor had 14 employees and made 2.4 million the year before. The number was 12 employees and 1.9 million. So one could look at it and say, oh my gosh, the revenue jumped by a half a million dollars. They must have an extra 500 grand in their pocket. But after looking at the comments and the data surrounding these numbers, what we realize is that's not extra income. That is the increase in costs of goods and services. So it's great to have year over year data so that we can paint a picture that really shows what these numbers mean and we need as much participation as possible. So I'm really employing, please contractors, take the 10 or 15 minutes and take this survey and you will not be sorry. You will get that report and you will want to read it from start to finish.
Brock Yordy:
The last piece I'll say, industry, is we're going to move on to all the other cool things Water System Council has going on. It has shown year after year that our industry is heavily family-owned, and that's not something more common to be able to say in industries as we used to be. And so it states 85% of respondents are part of a family owned operation. Again, from funding to understanding devastation that happened in North Carolina and slowed down all of your businesses, the Bureau of Labor Statistics has studies right now that are talking about from construction to forestry workers to farm workers, us being in construction that our 40 hour work weeks are being impacted and the ability of business we can do from extreme heat to the massive snow storm that I'm experiencing right now to a category five hurricane that just bulldozed its way through the middle of our country.
Margaret Martens:
Right?
Brock Yordy:
These are things that we need to know.
Margaret Martens:
Well, the link to the survey is on the Water Systems Council website. Now we did share it also with state associations. So if you are a member of a state association and haven't received the survey, you can certainly reach out to them to see about getting the link. This is the QR code. We will be at Groundwater week booth 273, and we're going to have some special promotions for folks who take the survey during Groundwater Week. They're entered into a drawing to win either a drone or a copy of our newest Water Systems handbook.
Brock Yordy:
I'll tell you what, audience, if you're at Groundwater Week at 2:30 today, which is Wednesday, The Driller's having a happy hour, and we'll have that QR code there. But also in our transcript, in our link of this Newscast, we will have this. I have participated, you need to participate. I can remember starting with grandpa and dad, Yordy & Son Well Drilling, with our cable tool and trying to afford that new-to-us first rotary rig and thinking this $2,700 a month rig payment is going, if I ruin this rig, I'm going to bankrupt Yordy & Sons. Mind you, this is 1998. You think now, boy, could we all just have $300,000 drill rigs again? This is important. So fill out the survey and do it for your family, for the legacy of the business and where we're growing from here. So beyond this cool survey, what else is going on with the Water System Council?
Margaret Martens:
Well, there's a lot, obviously there's a lot of talk out there about PFAS and we are very concerned about a trend that we have seen where municipalities are suggesting to private well owners that they hook up to public water because their supply has the private well has PFAS, and we all know those in the water well industry, that public water could very well be drawing from the same aquifer that the private wells are. And we want people to know that there's treatment available. So we've been chasing some of this PFAS money that's supposed to be available to private well owners for remediation. I was in an EPA webinar, it was probably late spring, and there was a slide that said, $1 billion for private well owners for PFAS remediation. So I talked to our lobbyist in D.C. and I said, we need to find out where that money's going.
So, we chased it around and then finally found out that this was going to the states through the state revolving funds. Well, individuals have never accessed state revolving funds, so it's a little bit of a smokescreen. So we're working to try to clarify within the states how they can get funding available, like here in North Carolina, again, huge Gen X problem, and there's a special fund. So I've talked to the officials here in North Carolina and they did get money, but it was kind of money, funny money that anybody could kind of access. So we are talking about them getting it into a restricted fund so those monies can go to remediation for these private wells because hooking up to public water is not the answer. And we don't want people to think that private wells are not an answer for their drinking water. It's just a matter of having treatment done. And of course, at the same time, we're also concentrating on trying to get that darn farm bill passed.
Brock Yordy:
It's devastating. It's a hundred-percent heartbreaking when you look at the USDA farm bill, there's so much of it for rural water and municipal water, and not to mention irrigation wells for farmers and devastation, compensation, it's industry, regardless of you vote right or left or down the middle, we failed rural America and our farmers and our drillers by not getting a farm bill passed. And sadly, if this comes back to the fact that they're upset about SNAP and food stamps, it's always had a component. And if you think about it from a subsidy standpoint, we want our Americans access to great produce and clean water, and it's all one big circle.
Margaret Martens:
Right? So, yes, definitely. And there is new funding in there for treatment and testing of private wells, and that would be funds that the water Well trust could access and then distribute to people who are in need. And so we really are trying to get that new funding resource through the Farm Bill passed, and like you say, on behalf of a lot of other rural water initiatives. So certainly working on that, we've also just been working on Water Systems Council has two standards. We have a tank standard and we have a pit list adapter standard. So we have been working with both the International Plumbing Code and the Uniform Plumbing codes to try to get those standards into those codes because our members, our manufacturer members, their products are tested to those codes. And so we want their products to be able to be approved within all the states because the states, of course are the ones that are, that's where the code is adopted is either at the state level. So we have been successful in getting the tank in both UPC and IPC and the pit list and IPC, but now we are working hard to get the pit list in the UPC. And so it's a lot of, I don't know if you've ever been to a code hearing, woo, a little dry, but I've been attending these code hearings in order to try to get those industry standards approved.
Brock Yordy:
And those standards are very important to the livelihood of our industry, back to 85% of us being part of family businesses. We got to be able to go out into our business. And if pit lists and tanks don't fall within standards, suddenly it comes back to big industry and hey, we can run this pipeline right along here and we can protect you that way, but we just don't know what's going in the ground. And so those are the type of things that I don't, we're too busy being muddy and providing water and enjoying that piece that we need Water Systems Council to have our back and our manufacturers. And you look at the manufacturers on the board and participants along with members and state members, you're doing boring stuff to us, like you say, being in those meetings and going, but it continues our legacy.
Margaret Martens:
And then one other thing I want to mention is, and I think you probably picked up on this, and this is when we are looking at the legal landscape for our industry, we are seeing particularly out west that there are new regulations going down as far as regulating groundwater because they are attaching groundwater and surface water together. So there's say in Nevada, in Sonoma County, California, they are restricting, they're starting to restrict water well drilling because of surface water supply and of course versus New Mexico. That's an issue that they talk about in that case that they're saying there's too many wells next to the river and that's why the water isn't getting to Texas. So that's a fairly new development that we've got our eye on because it is concerning.
Brock Yordy:
We say it's new. Jesse and I and several have been geeking out slash screaming, Oh my goodness! And you're absolutely right. Nevada State Supreme Court had a case that passed that talked about the impact of an aquifer and surface water and the fish species and whatnot. And then we also, yes, Texas versus New Mexico. They're drilling water wells along the Rio Grande, and it was affecting citrus farmers in South Texas.
We're talking about a big difference. And we're not screaming about Colorado not allotting New Mexico and Texas their amount of water or what Mexico is supposed to be getting from the Colorado River shed. We're just blaming water wells on the Rio Grande. Again, it's one big circle.
Margaret Martens:
And all those little straws, we have our eyes trained on it. Let me put it that way, because it is concerning. And authorities need to be educated about private wells more.
Brock Yordy:
This is a lot, and we're at groundwater week, and then we're all going to work one more full week, take a breath, hopefully toast and celebrate our families in the holidays in the new year. But as we're doing that, we got to be thinking about where our industry is heading in 2025? And that's doing the survey, being part of the Water Systems Council, along with being part of your state associations and your national associations, and you're in that coffee shop and you hear somebody talking about water or whatnot. You're the champion that needs to get back to go, Hey, this isn't the municipality's responsibility. It's all our responsibility. Or suddenly we will all be hooked up to one straw.
Margaret Martens:
Yes. Now, Jesse has always advocated for people being involved in their state association and being involved in your local government with your local government officials and your state government officials, because that's where it starts. And so it's extremely important for people in the water well industry to pay attention to what's going on in your own backyard.
Brock Yordy:
Well, thank you for your time today. It's wonderful as always.
Margaret Martens:
Okay. And I will enjoy seeing you at groundwater week.
Brock Yordy:
Yeah, thanks.
Margaret Martens:
Thank you.
Brock Yordy:
That was excellent. Thank you, Margaret. Thank you for joining us for episode 137 of The Driller Newscast at one o'clock today. If you're listening to this and you're in Las Vegas and it's December 11th, you need to hop over to Dave Bowers and my Talk on Safety, it's Law and Order Edition. We're going to talk about the consequences of unsafe acts and unsafe conditions with some scenarios. We're really going to jump into it. We're going to have a great discussion and we want you there. Please join us there, and then again, right after that, we have a happy hour at the driller booth, booth number 25. Expect to see you there. I hope you have a great, productive Groundwater Week. Thanks, everybody.
