Brock Yordy:
Good morning and welcome to episode 135 of the Driller Newscast, your resource for the current events, news, policymaking and stories that matter most to the drilling industry. I'm your host, Brock, and it's the day before Thanksgiving.
I'm excited to spend time with my family, celebrate all that I'm thankful for in 2024. And for that I want to jump right into our feature, which is an interview with The Driller's very good friend and, I think, one of the most influential executive directors in our drilling industry, Dave Schulenberg. We're going to talk about getting involved with your state association, being a groundwater professional, what's going on with Mr. Mouse, and what we're thankful for. It was such a great time catching up with Dave, and I'm just going to say it — get involved with your state associations, groundwater, geothermal drilling. It's great community comradery, and it's very important for you to be involved in all that is happening, from legislation to safety to being a better industry, by all being informed. We're better together. Let's get on to the legendary Dave Schulenberg, creator of Mr. Mouse.
It's Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving. We're doing a special newscast on all things great about our industry and one of my favorite people in the entire drilling/groundwater industry and an amazing mentor, knowledge-sharer, great author, executive director of multiple states, has joined me, and I feel like this year has blown by, because usually I have Dave on at least two to three times and we've been busy. We have been busy. I want to introduce you again to our great industry friend, advocate and the creator of Mr. Mouse: Dave Schulenberg.
How are you doing, Dave?
Dave Schulenburg:
I'm doing good, thank you very much. Appreciate being back with you for the first time this year in ’24. I think we'd have to go back and look. It has been a busy year. I'm doing well and we're probably going to delve into this a little bit more as we go on, but it has flown by, Brock, by all means. This has been one of those years that you think back and go, “holy crap. It went fast.”
Brock Yordy:
It does. It feels like coming out to the Minnesota show, I was so worried about driving from Minneapolis Airport out to the convention. I rented a four-wheel drive and it was January, and of course you should need a four-wheel drive, but instead I'm in this four-wheel drive with the windows down and it's, like, 58 degrees.
Dave Schulenburg:
Yeah, it has been a crazy year and right now it's about 32, 33 degrees, somewhere around there, and we have light snow, but I talked to headquarters today and they're supposed to get measurable snow. So, east of Minnesota and, I even think west of Minnesota, and some of the Dakotas and Montana, they're getting some measurable snow, but right now it's just a dusting, is what we would call it. So, it has been a unique year in more ways than just the weather, but in a whole lot of other stuff. And it has been busy for all of us. There’s been a lot of growth with the partner states program that I oversee. As well as finalizing the new Mr. Mouse book and working on getting that illustrated for (hopefully) Groundwater Week when we're all together in New Orleans.
Brock Yordy:
So, thinking of that — this year flying by — January 1st, 2025, we are a quarter of the way through the 21st Century.
Dave Schulenburg:
Yeah. Isn't that something? I can remember growing up, and I don't want to date myself too much, but the year 2000 I was going to be in my thirties, my early thirties. I thought, “oh my God, I'm never going to be that old.” I was expecting flying cars. I thought quicksand would be a lot more dangerous than it ever turned out to be, but I think that was just too much Saturday morning cartoons and Scooby-Doo.
But I look back at this last quarter century and it's really been marked by a transition in my career of what I was doing to what I'm doing now, where I finally found my passion and that's working in association management and specifically with the groundwater industry. It was about 2002 when I started working with the Minnesota Water Well Association. So it's about 23-ish years or so that I've been the executive director for a water well drilling association at the state level, and to think back then I was going to the fly-in and seeing that being more important than going to Groundwater Week when I should have been advocating to be going to both. Both of them are equally as important to a groundwater professional.
And in the last 13 years, I've been the director of partner states with NGWA and that has really opened up my eyes to start using that terminology that everybody in this industry, whether you're a registered or licensed contractor, however your state decides to label you, you need to label yourself as a groundwater professional. You're not a contractor, you're not a well digger, you're a groundwater professional. And if you want to talk to me one-on-one with that, get a hold of me and I'll walk you through why you should be a groundwater professional.
But that's really a lot of the change that I've seen in the last 20-some years. It’s not only a change in our board structures, our membership structures, but you've also, over 20 years, gone from, well, we used to do it this way to we have to do it this way now because there's been so many advancements in technology. We have a fax number for NGWA. I don't know how many people use it or how many people still have a fax, but that's gone the way of the dodo bird and we're now using Zoom technology to talk and do an interview. Cell phones, I can talk to anybody anywhere at any time around the world.
In the year 2000, we didn't have flying cars, but that was my expectation.
Brock Yordy:
It's wild. You're correct. I feel like your roles and responsibilities 23, 24 years ago, how many letters were you stuffing into envelopes and putting stamps on them?
Dave Schulenburg:
Well, we do send out our dues mailings and those all get hand stuffed. Here's your invoice. Well, then we would do a follow-up: We haven't seen you. We'd do a follow-up to that for your third one. Everything was: print out the sheet of labels, put them down, hand-stuff them, slap the labels on, stamp them, get them out. Now we do that once. We still send out a mailing because in all honesty, there are still contractors and professionals that don't have an email or that don't check it or it goes to their secretary. And that's fine.
We know what industry we're in and we know our members. We still send out at least one print copy or print mailing of whether it's dues or the show. Everything else is done electronically. And that's where you're starting to be at now in a financial look.
How can we do this in a more affordable manner? What is more efficient? Because with everything over the last 20 years, and especially over the last five years, you've seen prices increase for services, stamps, the US Postal Service, they kind of sometimes struggle financially and they have to figure out ways to do it and that's increasing their cost. But paper products are going up, the cost of mailing and things like that, when in all actuality we have to continue to embrace the technology that you have at your fingertips.
Brock Yordy:
So with being a groundwater professional, a drilling professional, embracing technology, here we are about to start the second quarter of the 21st century. We are 25 years from 2050 goals for decarbonization and net-zero, greenhouse gases impact our weather, our environment, and very specifically, as we are starting to see more and more, our groundwater and our water supplies. You have such an awesome depth of knowledge from Kentucky to California and Minnesota and Michigan and Kansas, and I know I'm leaving some out.
Dave Schulenburg:
I'll help you out with it. The partner states program now has nine states. And so over the last year we've brought on two more states. So Minnesota, Michigan, Montana, Oregon, California, New Mexico, Kansas, Illinois, and Kentucky. And so if you were to look at that map behind you, if you were to zoom in on the U.S., it kind of comes around and goes up. And so I do have access to or knowledge of water-rich states — Michigan, Minnesota— to challenging states — Montana, California, New Mexico, Kansas, dealing with the Ogallala. Every state has its own issues, whether it's legislative, whether it's natural resources or whatever, that we have to, as an industry, continue to work with and promote what it is that we do. That we're not just a bunch of hole punchers, but that we are stewards of our industry. We're not here to just say, I made another dollar today by putting another hole in the ground. Because if we think that, then your kids won't have a job, there won't be a resource left. We understand the resources. We are groundwater professionals. We know the hydrology, the geology and all of that that goes into providing potable water for individuals, communities, irrigation, livestock, et cetera.
Brock Yordy:
It's wild. And as I think of the past 134-plus newscasts, if I look at the list of the states you're involved in, you have, for the state of Michigan, you have line five going across the Great Lakes into the Upper Peninsula and Rockford, Michigan with PFAS.
Dave, you're in the middle of it in Minnesota with zero for PFAS, not to mention the headwaters of the Mississippi and all of the ideas of what Minnesota brings to the third largest city in the country, being Chicago and from groundwater to allocations of the Great Lakes to yes, Kansas and the Ogallala and the big discussions on is that water beneath the ground, just that properties or have we seen the destruction of over pumping in one area versus another to California, our largest house seats in the country, water stressed, lots of atmospheric rivers coming in, trying to figure out stormwater capture and aquifer recharge. And a SR wells are managing aquifer recharge.
New Mexico has been in two major court cases, New Mexico versus Texas, which definitely attacked groundwater from the fact that they said those wells were too close to the Rio Grande and that's why the water didn't head down into the citrus farms on Texas and the Navajo Nation and what's happening with New Mexico there on water wells that were used for mining that are now being used as potable water wells and people pulling from them from water not being available to, I would say New Mexico is one of those states that we need to focus on because of all that's happening for people having access to clean water, to how do we maintain and advocate for private water.
Dave Schulenburg:
And that's not just in New Mexico, and I don't want to make light of New Mexico's concerns in any way, but in every state, no matter where either I am involved with or where your broadcast is reaching out to, you need to be involved. If you are not involved at your community or your state level and advocating on behalf of private water wells, our industry will not survive. You must be involved. You must advocate, get a hold of your executive directors, get a hold of your board members, ask them for assistance on how you can do that outreach and have that communication with your elected officials. Because in almost every state in the country, the municipalities are going to be the heavy areas that will make policy. And if they don't know about groundwater and they don't know about our industry, you will get regulated as opposed to being part of the discussion on that resource. I can't say it any other way. You must be involved. You must advocate for this industry.
Brock Yordy:
It's wild. And I love that you say that because you're right, Minnesota, Illinois, the Great Lake States are connected, and as we go east and west and north and south upgradient down gradient, we all have responsibilities. And from a municipality standpoint, what's scary is there's 38,000 municipalities out there. 10% of them feed 90% of our population. So that means there's 36,000 municipalities that feed less than 10,000 residents, many on groundwater supply wells and not surface water. That's correct. And there's even a big chunk that feeds less than 3000 individuals. And then we pull back to private water wells. 40 million Americans are what we say are involved right around maybe 14 to 15 million private water wells.
Dave Schulenburg:
And how many of those private water wells are included with irrigation or livestock? Because when you talk about feeding the municipalities, that food source comes from outside the municipality. It comes from outstate Minnesota to feed the Twin cities. It comes from outstate Ann Arbor to feed Ann Arbor. And in every state, you've got that same thing, that we are the core, we are the source, we are the knowledge on how to bring our resources forward, and we have to do that professionally. We have to make sure that we continue to advocate and we have to make sure that we continue to speak up on behalf of a resource that can't speak for itself.
Brock Yordy:
Yeah, we see it right now happening right here. The day before Thanksgiving. New York State has pushed out many pieces. The New York Times has picked it up. National news has picked it up that they are in a drought, the worst drought they have seen in 50 years. And that's scary when you start thinking about the population of Michigan and the population of New York City being the same. Then you look at LA as the second largest city in the country, but when the two biggest cities in the country are screaming about where the water's going to come from and what's happening, we don't think east of the Mississippi very often about being in a drought. We are.
Dave Schulenburg:
Yep. And New York City has got a unique system to obtain their drinking water. It all comes from upstate New York through aqueducts and tunnels and pumping stations and things like that. So, New York City might be in a drought. It's not affecting their water other than that, they're using it. It's upstate New York that is seeing water levels reducing. So how do you continue to feed that? Everybody takes a hose and puts it in there to fill it back up for downstate. Ben Franklin had that quote, right? Whiskeys for drinking, water for fighting. Paraphrasing, of course.
Brock Yordy:
I think he has another one that says, drink wine water has microorganisms in it or something.
Dave Schulenburg:
Yeah, exactly. And that's where our industry can step up and say, we can clean your water. So yeah, the last 25 years have seen a lot of changes, a lot of growth, and a lot of knowledge transfer and a lot of challenges. I mean with any industry you see that our industry, we take a look at saying, yeah, the guys that I had on boards 25 years ago are now retiring or unfortunately have passed away and it's their sons or somebody else that's come in and bought that company who we now look to be the leaders of our industry, whether it's at the state or the federal or the national level, sorry, at NGWA or your state level, be it Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota. All of these have seen that same change and have gone through the same changes. And that's where being part of the fly-in being groundwater week does a lot of good because we continue to be better together. That's a phrase that I continue to use in all my states on my signature for the state, Chris Reimer from NGWA, coined it a dozen or so years ago. We're better when we're together. So that whole phrase of better together as an industry is still resonating with a lot of us.
Brock Yordy:
It is. And it is neat how our industry has set its schedule. And I think being just a few weeks away from NGWA Groundwater week, which is how I love capping my year off with comradery and community, now is the time to think about what conferences are you making it to your state association show? Are you scheduled? Are you going to take time? No matter if it is a 58-degree sunny day and frost laws have come off, it's almost planned. I think you're also like a weather shaman. You can plan a conference, and it will be the most beautiful weather.
Dave Schulenburg:
Well, I'm not a hundred percent because I have had a conference where it's been 50 below in a blizzard. Luckily you are in Minnesota. It was Minnesota. But no, when we start that first of the year and we're done with groundwater week, yes, you have the time to go and enjoy the benefits of the previous year with your supply house trips. And those are great. Those are fun. They're relaxing, they're entertaining. It's a great way to say thank you and support the industry, but you've also got your state shows whether you need continuing ed or not. I would encourage everyone to participate at the state level because there is something that you can learn at every one of them. You may not need to have it. You may not need to know it. You may not think you need to know it since you don't have continuing ed.
Or if you do have continuing ed, go to that one that is new to you. Learn something new to better your industry, to set yourself better than the people that don't show up, continue to press forward and continue to strive to be that groundwater professional. So yeah, partner states, the ones that I can speak on. You've got Kansas, Minnesota, Montana, Illinois, Michigan, Oregon, New Mexico, Kentucky are all having a show of one form or another. Between January and March, you've got to fly in at the end of March is critical. And this year we must continue to advocate on behalf of our industry at the federal level as well. Remember, we're the groundwater professionals. We need to get in front of our elected officials, not only at the state level. So talk to your association and do a day at the Capitol, whether it's in Lansing or Helena or wherever, but also participate in the NGWA.
When you hear about it, go out there, understand what it is at a national level that the association is advocating for, and go and talk to them. Because those skills are right there you can take back and do at the state level and continue to press forward with those important topics at the state level. And the more you do that, the more they remember. Yep. I remember NGWA was here last year. Yep. I remember the Missouri Association came to the capitol last year or however that goes. But you have to advocate, and that's part of being a groundwater professional. I understand it's another expense. I understand it's another day off the rig, but you have to do it, so you have more income in the future and you have more days on the rig in the future.
Brock Yordy:
And there is a lot from legislative updates from state to state to carb emissions and those pieces going on that we need to be in the know for our state. And that's going to happen at the association state Association level, but hitting the fly fly-in. When we look at diversification of our business, ground source, geothermal drilling is a very big piece. How we treat and permit irrigation wells is a very big piece of our future. Understanding that the Department of Energy and the EPA are going to shift in priorities, and we as groundwater professionals need to know that before the Clean Water Act, before the waters of the United States, before some of these pieces were put in places, rivers caught on fire.
Dave Schulenburg:
You're not going to hear any argument from me on that at all. Brock, no matter what the issue is, water, whether it's in a hydro flask or whether it's in a clear bottle, is our domain. We have to understand. We understand it. We have to advocate for it. We cannot go back to those days of just letting wanton abuse happen to our waters because what happens at the surface, and I'm a firm believer of it, happens underground eventually. Look at PFAS best practices 50 years ago. We're now dealing with it across the country and at the federal level. Yes, we're going to see changes. We will see the EPA probably change from one to another, but how do we advocate for it? How do we keep putting it in front of them at the state level? The states are going to be different from the federal level. How do we keep staying in front of it? How do we advocate for it? How do we realize that it can be treated at the point of entry and that by doing that, we do make a difference in cleaning it up as opposed to saying, everybody go to long pipe. Because again, if you don't advocate for the industry, you're going to go to long pipe and you can go to all the fly-ins you want because you'll have all the time in the world you want because you won't be drilling.
Brock Yordy:
I'm thankful we're drilling. I'm also thankful for this industry and I want to shift us to the last couple minutes. I'm hoping for a Lion's win tomorrow on Thanksgiving, and I want to know what you're thankful for in life in the industry in the end of November.
Dave Schulenburg: What am I thankful for? Personally, I'm thankful for a good, healthy family. A granddaughter who's going to be two in December, and the fact that I'm a papa and she loves running to papa whenever I see her and that we get her every Friday. I'm thankful for the fact that I have got friends across the country that are involved within this industry that I've met over the last 25 years that are near and dear to me. I'm thankful I've got over a hundred board members on all these different boards and the fact that they feel comfortable to call me with a question and I don't have a problem whatsoever in doing that. So from personal to a job, I'm thankful for the partner states program that I've worked hard in developing and if anybody has questions about how they can participate in it or wanting to know more, get a hold of me.
Brock has got my contact information and then I'm also thankful for that image Behind me is been a fun endeavor in dealing with the original Mr. Mouse, the Adventures of Mr. Mouse, which started out as a bedtime story damn near 20 years ago to the fact that last year I debuted Mr. Mouse gets the new water wealth for our industry at Groundwater week, and it's been very well received. So thank you everybody who has a copy of it, there will be copies of it at groundwater week this year. You can get it at the NGWA bookstore and it is just a fun industry related children's story because there isn't another one out there to be able to do this with Brock too.
Brock Yordy:
I love the Mr. Mouse series. I enjoy every opportunity. I'm thankful for every opportunity I get to interact with you and come to the conferences and also text you not being one of your board members and ask you great industry advice, life advice, knowledge. I am thankful for our industry's knowledge. The ones that freely will just give everything they got and some of, Hey, you should call Marvin or you should call Brian S. Melton or you should get ahold of Mary in Texas about these type environmental things. There's just so many pieces here that like you've said, we're better together.
Dave Schulenburg:
We are.
Brock Yordy:
I love it.
Dave Schulenburg:
And along those lines as we wrap this up, and this isn't a plug because I work for NGWA, but you will see that knowledge shared not only at your state level shows, but also at groundwater week. And they do that freely because as you have done and as I have done, we both feel that we have topics to share, we have education, we have insights, we have things to share with others in a different setting than this. You have got a whole logbook where if I've done two, how do we realize and how do we understand PFAS at the contractor level, but also what is our image? How do we sell ourselves? Are we diggers, drillers or groundwater professionals? And no matter what it is that we share, we fall into that with what you're thankful for. And that being our knowledge sharers, you and I both have a great relationship with hundreds of them and I know everybody watching has got a relationship with somebody that they can say, yeah, I learned this from the show and show. He's my knowledge.
Brock Yordy:
I think that's a perfect place to wrap. Everybody had a wonderful Thanksgiving and I better see you bright and early Tuesday, December. I want to say that's 10th. So. It is. It's December 10th classes start, and there is so much to see between the geothermal track that's happening and all the groundwater professional tracks. Are you teaching anything this year, Dave?
Dave Schulenburg:
I'm not presenting this year. I'll be down there learning again from our knowledge shares, but also making sure that I'm available for the delegates meeting so that I can get up, answer people's questions, be down there on behalf of the partner states, but also leading the peer-to-peer meeting for those state association leaders that are there. Take a look at the schedule, be happy to have you join us at the peer-to-peer meeting as well.
Brock Yordy:
I'm happy you brought that up because that's such an awesome piece of everything else you're doing. And I know part of it is the challenge from the partner states at NGWA and doing the peer-to-peer meeting, but you're helping develop and collaborate and learn from multiple other groundwater associations.
Dave Schulenburg:
That's correct. And they get to learn from other knowledge shared from whether you're the secretary of the Kentucky Association and you get to meet the president of the Colorado Association. A lot of our states, when we get out of that mindset of I live in a state, you understand that Yep. On the West Coast, they're having issues just like I'm having issues here in the southeast and they're pretty much the same ones. And you know what? This guy over here or that lady over there has done a great job of addressing it. I want to take that back and you get to meet all those other contacts as well. So really looking forward to seeing everybody down at Groundwater week in Vegas this year. Do you have any questions? Look me up. I'll be around.
Brock Yordy:
Awesome. Thank you so much for your time today, Dave.
Dave Schulenburg:
Hey, thank you Brock. Appreciate it.
Brock Yordy:
Thank you for joining us for episode 135. What are you most thankful for? I am really thankful for my great lake state and the Detroit Lions and my healthy family, but the nine one Detroit Lions, Dave Schoenberg is such a classy guy that he didn't even mention that the Vikings are eight and two and this is a big deal, but we're playing the Bears tomorrow. Not worried there. Just a few weeks away from Groundwater week in Las Vegas. National Groundwater Association hosts an amazing event and we can't wait to be there. Stop by the driller booth. Stop by our talks in the geothermal track and Dave and I teach a special safety talk, Dave Bowers and I, that is going to be law and order themed. Dun dun, go out. Have a great Thanksgiving, take some time, pause, be with your family. I hope you get that big buck if that's what you're out there doing right now, we'll see you in a week. Thanks everybody.
