Good morning, and welcome to episode 131 of the Driller Newscast — a weekly update on the news and stories impacting the construction, water, geothermal, environmental, and geotechnical industry. I am your host, Brock Yordy, and this week's episode comes to us from our friends at Terra Sonic International. Terra Sonic International is uber-focused on the development of all aspects of sonic technology — leading the industry in innovation, design, manufacturing, quality, and service after the sale. This dedication and discipline led to the TSI 150 series Sonic Drill Oscillator, which delivers the highest level of sonic drilling power, reliability, and efficiency. The proprietary Sonic Oscillator produces up to 50,000 pounds of force at 150 hertz and 4,677 foot-pounds of rotational torque at 62 RPMs. All TSI Sonic Drill Rigs feature this proprietary Sonic Oscillator, which provides precise and powerful performance. Learn more or schedule your very own demonstration at www.terrasonicinternational.com. Thank you, Team Terra Sonic, for helping us bring the news to the industry this week.
We’re going to jump right into our feature with Jeff Garby, columnist for The Driller and Innovator at Alucast. We will talk about what's going on in the geotech and environmental industry, recap the National Drilling Association's Drill Expo that happened in Cleveland, hit upon all things PFAS — from drilling to PFAS in products to what we do next — get a little bit of an update on what's going on with the Fleming Drill School alums, and we end by talking about how we share knowledge and give back to the industry. I hope you enjoy it.
Feature Interview
For this week's feature, we're going to Canada with a good industry friend, advocate, champion, and innovator — Jeff Garby with Alucast. We were just at the National Drilling Association’s Drill Expo event in Cleveland, and Jeff is an integral part of promoting the association and raising professionalism in the geotechnical and environmental industry with his company Alucast. Jeff, go ahead and introduce yourself to the industry.
Jeff Garby
My name's Jeff Garby. I work for a company called Alucast Industries, and what we do is well protection. So we sell well protection all around the world for monitoring wells. We sell through distributors and we have our products in 39 countries right now. We started the company maybe six years ago with just a couple of drawings, a little bit of engineering, and some cool designs. We spoke to drillers around the world, engineers around the world, and consultants to see what they'd like to see in a manhole cover, and we designed it. And from there it's been growing and we've been having a ton of fun doing it with social media and newsletters and meeting some great people in the industry and having a ton of fun along the way.
Brock Yordy
It's wild because you were integral in introducing a piece to our industry on being prideful of something that's not seen. And in the past six years it's been cool to watch that, but seriously, we do our job, we leave, then people come pull data out of that hole; but it's not sexy. And I watch different posts come up and see people's logos. The way these manhole covers hold up, it's a trophy. It's going, “I was there,” opposed to, “What is this thing in the ground right here that I'm driving over?”
Jeff Garby
Yeah. Well, it hasn't evolved since 1978. There's been one manhole cover in our whole industry. The rigs have evolved, drillers have evolved, and products have evolved. Everything in our industry has evolved except for the one thing you see when you return to the drill site, which blew my mind. So I'm like, how come no one's made a better cover? I figured out maybe, I think it was like last year, we sat down and spoke with our competitors — super nice people — and they say, “We build the strongest well cover”. I thought, well cover, but does it protect?
So what we did is that test, the crazy demo that we bring to all our distributors. We put one of our covers down, one of their covers, and pour water in it. Water holds in ours; the other one, most of the time, it's not going to hold. It took us a while to figure it out, but I think it took the industry a little while to try to make it sexy again. Like you were saying, you are on a site, you are drilling, and you’re working hard. Your rigs are perfect, and your drillers are great. Just put the good well protection on there. Make it look nice. It's not rusty.
When I used to be a driller, I'd bring my son with me and say, “That site I drilled, that site I drilled, that site I drilled.” And he asked me this question: “Why are they all ugly, dad? Why are they rusty?”
It's like when you build a house — house builders can drive back a year later and go, “I built that beautiful house”. Drillers can't say that. Drillers may have drilled a perfect well; they [may have been] there for a week, and it was perfect water. No one sees that, and if it looks like junk, that's your reputation and legacy. So we're trying to get it through to drillers, and it's picking up some steam worldwide, which is excellent.
Representation, professionalism, raising the bar, being a proud driller
Brock Yordy
And I think that's a great segue into representation, professionalism, raising the bar, being proud. We've watched these events happen across the country for the National Drilling Association, and the Drill Expo that just happened a few weeks ago was so much fun. Tell us about your involvement with the NDA.
Jeff Garby
I think this is just an event that was created and it's so niche. It's specifically for geotech environmental, that's it. Where you go to the NGWA great show, pizazz, big drills, pumps, water wells, this, that. You meet a ton of new people. It's great. This was niche. Everybody at the show knows geotech, environmental drilling and environmental drilling. The right rig manufacturers were there, the right suppliers were there and everyone was extremely happy with the presentations. There was a golf day, there was a ton of events. The presidential dinner? I mean, everything was great. The board put on a wonderful show behind the scenes. They worked extremely hard. It's not a huge board — it's growing. But the people on there love this industry and I think it's great.
What blew my mind the most was having competitors. Now in Europe, you'll see it. North America, you'll never see competitors sitting together, talking, laughing, talking about the industry, talking about their rigs, what they're thinking of making. So they're pushing the industry and it's not that they're becoming friends, but they're becoming more open. Where back in the day, it was stink eye. You'd see one person at a booth looking at the other person. Everybody was sitting together at this show.
So I mean, I loved it. I mean, Sam did a great job. Gary did a great job. Eric, the board, like you said, is a phenomenal board and they're building structure, and you'll hear it here first. By next year it's going to double, it's going to double. And then the year after, it's going to triple, the word is just getting out on this and they're tweaking things. And I think it's just going to be a great show for our industry.
Brock Yordy
And seeing that as chapters across the country open. And that's one really cool piece of the NDA is seeing these regional chapters. With the other associations. We have state associations and we have the national event. Geothermal is very segmented and some states have champions and others don't. But fun chapters, right? They're called the Lone Star Chapter and the Buckeye Chapter, and Sam did a big call out that we need a Chicago or upper Midwest Chapter. You were just out in California. That's a brand new chapter, right?
Jeff Garby
Yeah. California is just getting started. That's going to be one of the biggest chapters. I think there's demand for them everywhere. People want to work together just to set the bar somewhere and say, “Here are the regulations, here are the rules. Let's put things together and start looking more professional, less mom and pop, and let's become an industry, a strong industry, and work together to do it”. So I mean, every state should have one. I mean, it's just taking time, but they're growing extremely quickly and extremely. There are some great people involved. So I mean, it should double and triple over the next year, year and a half.
Brock Yordy
Thinking of doubling and tripling, how does the global geotechnical, environmental work look like right now? One of my favorite aspects of you is that you are a graduate of Fleming, which if we look at higher education drilling programs, there's Fleming, there's some universities in the United States that train geologists and talk drilling. But Fleming is like encountering an astronaut! There's not been that many people that have gotten to go to space. And I love comparing drillers to astronauts, right? Armageddon. It's easier to train a driller to become an astronaut than an astronaut to become a driller. And Gord and Jim Smith have done that. So what do you see with your brother and sisterhood of Fleming around the world and what's going on?
Jeff Garby
We all stay in touch. The graduating years, I mean, there's people who work at Landshark. Troy was in my class. Jim Smith, the teacher was teaching at Fleming, was in my class. We all stay in touch. It's a niche industry. There's people all over the states, all over the world, which is great. Right now, I'd say geotech environmental is, it's up, it's down. It's crazy. I mean, in the States, it was crazy busy for two years, election year this year, you're starting to see wars in the world, which make people nervous. There was elections in France, the UK, so I mean you saw little, it was pretty much stagnant for a bit. Then it just flew up the UK, France, all over the map, and it is a great industry. I think they're going to continue. I don't think it's as hot as geothermal, the potential of geothermal, but it's a good steady market that keeps people employed, people happy. But it is physical work. We all know that. Tough, physically and mentally, but it's getting better. The rigs are better. I think the next couple of years should be good. The states, your guess is as good as mine. Whatever happens in November, what's going to be the repercussions? No repercussions. I mean, I think people are holding onto their cash a bit in the US.
Brock Yordy
I see; yes, geothermal is a behemoth, but the investment from the Federal Infrastructure Law in the United States to abandoning orphan wells and some of the environmental investigation to be done there, the environmental investigation to be done for PFAS, for Gen X chemicals. I think there is a, it's tragic, but strong future with what's happening for monitoring wells and for professionals to step into this industry and understand that they can help define where clean groundwater is. How do we remediate? I think we're going to hear a lot more drilling and remediation coming together. We're going to do some deep aquifer testing to see where PFAS is, and I see just as many incentives and big things happening.
Jeff Garby
So, I'm going to pick your brain. It's a bit off-topic, but I will go straight at it. Not many people want to hear about this, but PFAS — our industry is looking for PFAS. How are people testing their drilling equipment for PFAS right now? If you're asking me, it's not the correct way they're doing it. I mean, if you're taking water and pouring it, I mean, the engineers and the consultants are going to hate me for this, but if you're taking water and you're pouring it on an auger, you're catching it, and then you're going out testing, is that PFAS testing? I mean, they're drilling for it. Do they find it? It could be on their augers, on their rods, or everywhere. We don't have a standard in our industry of how to test. We can test the ground for PFAS, but how do we know our products don't have PFAS?
Brock Yordy
It's a loaded question. So polyfluoroalkyl substances, right? I'm to the point now in 2003, I was sitting in an environmental class at Western Michigan University and a professor was standing in front of the class saying, “This is the biggest, scariest emerging contaminant we have”. And so I came out of college and I started working for Baroid and Halliburton and I'm like, okay, it is going to be like that old Saturday Night Live skit with the land shark or pizza, and then they eat the person I kept waiting for PFAS to jump out and it didn't. And we had EPA and these things going and suddenly 2016, it rears its head and we start looking at testing. We're starting to see all these other stories coming out. But you're absolutely right from being able to check parts per billion in the ground and a monitoring well to what C8 chemicals, and from PFOS to PFAS, it's there to repel water. It's in paint, it was in cosmetics.
Jeff Garby
Is it in our drilling equipment?
Brock Yordy
Dude, I know good drillers that go, if you're not using this can of water repellent on your boots that I've had since grandpa gave it to me, your boots aren't protected. And at the same time, it's like, bro, why don't you flip over this can and start looking to see where it falls in the amount of toxicity. And so when we start looking at our tooling, our equipment, the tape, the grease, there's so many pieces there to ask. And then it even goes deeper into decontamination process. Right now, if I buy that stainless steel pump and I use it to sample my monitoring well, to see what my water looks like, what's the parts per billion? Per trillion? That pump can't ever leave that site. There's not a good decontamination process. We're trying to figure out how to blow up this C8 chemical, and everybody's talking about taking it to 6,500 degrees. Do we incinerate it? Putting eight carbon molecules together made something that was like a sci-fi film. So you're right. How do we test it? How do we come back and go stamp — That's PFAS-free? We need our manufacturers to consider it. We also need our regulators to understand the limitations.
Jeff Garby
We talked about it at the show. Okay, we'll send our stuff. Everyone's going to send their things to those nobody knows right now; drillers are drilling on sites for PFAS. They're taking out their stuff. They're going to another site, putting it in the ground, going to another site, putting it, man, it's making it worse. People want to get it tested. People like manufacturers, we're all talking. Sure, where do we send it? I'll send my stuff. I don't know. No one has any idea. Do you? Because I mean, we're just trying to find spots. People say, can you get it PFAS tested? Yeah, I can do it the way that everyone's doing it. Take water, pour it on there, put it in a cup, and send it away. PFAS free, come on. We all know that's a bit of BS, right? But that's the only thing that we've got right now.
Brock Yordy
When you get four and six parts per trillion for the drinking water standard, there are many components to assembling equipment, including machining, cutting oils, pieces that, in a manufacturing process, were never considered to become something that was going to be part of a monitoring or potable water well, correct? And we're such a small industry that Allied Engineering or Alloy or whoever in the mid con doesn't exactly know where all of their components end up at the end of the day,
Jeff Garby
Yeah, it's great that we have this big plan, but I think people got to stop thinking the big plan and maybe reverse engineer it a bit. Six, seven steps. And let's do step one. Where do we get it tested? Somebody has to come out and say, this is a drilling testing lab or something for everybody. And just do it. Because right now, everyone wants it. No one knows how to do it.
Brock Yordy
And at the same time, that can't be the blocker to functionality. World Health Organization says no known quantity of PFAS is safe for somebody. But at the same time, they put out in a massive email letter to all of these developing countries that says, if you have a choice between people dying from dehydration and no access to clean water and them drinking something that has beyond the drinking water standard of PFAS, they should drink that. John Oliver's got a beautiful Last Week Tonight and at the end of it, Danny DeVito plays the developer of increasing 3M's PFAS program. And it's in carpet, it's in everything. It's again, it's back to knock land, shark, chomp.
Jeff Garby
It's in everything, but we're testing for it. Our industry is actually testing for it. So we should be the ones, at least people getting together to say, how are we going to do this? Let's find a lab. Let's all talk to 'em. If we've got to invest, we invest. Let's get the ball rolling a bit.
Brock Yordy
I couldn't agree more. So since we challenged the industry to solve that, what other crazy thing is in the back of your mind that now that you have the undivided attention of the industry.
Jeff Garby
Just test. Know where your stuff's coming from. You’re working 10 hours, eight hours a day drilling. Know what you're putting in the ground. Know where your stuff is coming. Know a little bit more about your suppliers. That's why we put the newsletter out there, not to spam people. It educates you, just get educated. People need more money today - Inflation's up. You can't go to your boss and just say, “Give me money”. Go take a mud school. They're free. Call a local rep and say “I need to get smarter as a driller. How do I do it? Mud school, become a mud master. Go to your boss. I have to go. I'm a mud master”. Now I'm this, I have this certificate, this certificate. I took the Sonic class, I took this. You're worth something.
You're bringing value to the company now. People have to just get over that hump of it's bad timing out there. It is tough on people and the economy. People are starving. People are just making it paycheck to paycheck. So, if you want more money, speak to your reps and find out a little bit more. Educate yourself on the products. Maybe help your boss save money somewhere or help them get more value somewhere. I just feel for the drillers; I really do. A lot of people approach us and say, “Jeff, I got to change companies. I need more money”. That's not necessarily the way to do it. In my opinion, that's not the case; there's a lot of resources out there. And I think a mud master is awesome. You have your certificate. I took mine. I think it brings a lot of value. You're saving onsite when the drill is stuck.
Who are they calling? People like you. How do I get out of this? If you've taken the course, you're bringing value to your company.
So I mean, that's one of them. The other one is just, how can I say it for the next generation? Everyone's so nervous about teaching the younger people. I understand we're out here as suppliers, distributors, trying to make money. But if you can educate the younger generation on certain things that you've learned along the way, that's what I loved about the show. I loved sitting with the old boys club, just the guys that have been there 10, 20 years ahead of me just teaching you. This is what happens, Jeff. This is how you sell the problem. You don't sell the problem. You become friends with the people, educate a market, indicate like you do, educate them. So I just hope people can take a step back a bit instead of just fighting for the extra dollar. Make good connections in the industry. Lean on your connections. Just like I lean on you, you lean on me and you have great friends in the industry. Look, how do I get ahead with this? And contacts are everything in our industry today. So if you can figure that out, you're on the right path.
Brock Yordy
I love that. And we're really good at using our hands. We're really good at finding anything to be a hammer. We've been really bad at writing down. And you contribute to The Driller, you contribute to your piece with Talk Dirt To Me, I've been contributing for almost 13 years now. Just like you said, we can share information. The fun part about getting to hang out with you, Jeff, or your team, or the, let's face it, there's more than 200, 300 people in the geotechnical and environmental market, right? So doubling and tripling this show shouldn't be that hard. No different than if we look at the big groundwater conference in Vegas, the amount of drillers there versus the drillers that are in the US. It's still a fraction. We're very prideful. We want to believe that everybody who's anybody is there, but they're not. And we don't have to be 65 to start bestowing knowledge.
I think you hit the nail on the head there. And with that, we probably hit that nail with a 18-inch pipe wrench versus the hammer we should have been using because of our damn industry. But seriously, contributing to a magazine, to a blog post - that person that is struggling, that's thinking about going to a different job because we've deemed our entire industry based on our value. And that value is in hourly wage plus overtime, and it's professionalism, of course, they go become a mud master. They go to one of the CEU regional events that's happening with the NDA. They're going to come back smarter and more efficient. And if they can actually come back and write down those standard operating procedures for their company, the value's there, the efficiency's there, more money's made, people get paid more.
Jeff Garby
You have to go to the shows. And if you don't have money, I've posted it a million times. Hit your suppliers up, hit your distributors up, hit Jeff Garby up, and just say, “Jeff, here are 10 pictures of me on-site using your product. I believe in what you're saying. Can you help me out?” I will fly you to the show because there's so much value at these shows. Just hit your people up. Your boss may not give it to you, but there's other people, the rig manufacturers, people are here to help you. They want you to succeed. There's young salesman at the show told me, he's like, Jeff, I got the best price on my drill. The guy won't even talk to me. I said, what do you know about the guy? Nothing. He won't even look at me. We were there, Brock. We were there right 20 years ago of, I got a great product. Why don't you listen to me? Build the relationships. And the only way to build those relationships is at these shows. You go and you sit at a table where you know nobody and you meet them, talk to 'em, and you slowly grow and lean on people.
Brock Yordy
I think the advice I want to give there, I just had two ideas through my head. The first advice for any professional going to a show, what you're saying, all you got to do is look for the folks that are smiling, right? We're happy to be there. We're excited to talk and share. And you and I caught up on you having me fly out to Valdo Quebec, where when I got to Montreal, I got on a airplane where I faced the opposite direction that was twin propped. And as I came into that airport, it looked like a log cabin. I think it was a log cabin. It might not have been, I'm sorry, Canada, if I, you're probably going to go, well, of course that was Quebec, and that's why. But the second piece, you know what? 10 photos to Jeff or 10 photos to The Driller, and we just get a yellow short bus, and we'll start at the Detroit Windsor Bridge. We'll start the week before NGWA and we'll just cut across country and pick everybody up on the way.
Jeff Garby
Keep it with that sparkle in their eye and that want to succeed. The industry's here to support you. So I mean, you just have to find ways. You have to think about it. And if you don't know, reach out to certain distributors, like I said, and suppliers, and people will point you in the right direction. I promise you.
Brock Yordy
Think that's a great place to wrap up. We want to help each other. And that's a big piece of the NDA. And I didn't know that Sam Connelly, president of the NDA, had spent 25 years coaching basketball boys and girls. But in the time I've gotten to interact with him in the interviews, he a hundred percent is that coach that I remember having that you could rely on. And I watch you and I watch many professionals, even Todd Bromley, when somebody goes, Hey, how many waffle houses are in Ohio, Brock? And I go, why don't you go ask Todd just to fire him up.
Jeff Garby
He's a wealth of knowledge. He's one of the toughest, most stubborn men I've ever met, but one of the most smartest men I've ever met. He doesn't beat around the bush. He's been around the block. This guy he's been on the toughest jobs. It's a couple of generations in his family. But yeah, there's a lot of guys like that in our industry. There's a lot of knowledge. You just got to sometimes get through the cracks. And like I said, it's showing up at these shows. So hit Brock up, hit me up, hit Todd up, hit a bunch of people up. And if you don't know how, Brock will give my email or my email, jeff@allucastworld.com, and we're here to help you, like I said.
Brock Yordy
Awesome. Thanks for your time today, Jeff.
Jeff Garby
Right? Thanks, Brock.
Brock Yordy:
Thank you for joining us for episode 131. Thanks again, Jeff and Team Terra Sonic, for helping us bring this week's news. Check out thedriller.com for the latest content, all kinds of great things coming out from the EPA versus San Francisco on water discharge permits to more PFAS information. We're about to hit the New York Geo Brooklyn event while the RemTEC & Emerging Contaminants Summit is happening in Denver this week. So much going on in our industry. I hope you are taking the time to not only see what's going on but contribute, participate, and advocate for our drilling industry and our growth. Thanks, everybody. Have a great week.
